Discussing:
Article: Universities have destroyed feminism; Student activists have never understood sex
By Julie Bindel Jun 4 2021
Discussion
Multiple cohabiting clouds of feminism exist. Not “levels” or a spectrum; one is not over or better than another. They are not separate. They can overlap.
First, anyone who supports a woman (“female” >> feminism {1}) or women’s rights, values, products, et al is a feminist.
Second, some must overshoot the goal. Remember to shoot for the moon, and even if you miss, you’ll land among the stars. {2} You ask for more, and you fight harder than you should have to. This gives you room to compromise. These feminists are the heroes of the movements, but also the hated and occasionally embarrassing ones. Yet, years later, we can look back at them with pride. These compromises are small steps. {3, 4}
University Feminists in the mid-to-late 20th century were among the prominent and progressive feminists. Obviously, that gave them more voice. (Gradual progress from early 19th century to Late 20th) Yes, two forks, same focus. The second being the working-class women. Again, many crossovers. Plenty of “University Women” worked alongside non-university women, and fed off each other. University clubs helped.
Universities have traditionally been about progressive thinking, open minds. Yes, that progressiveness often met resistance that demanded respect; that resistance frequently came from within the universities too.
1: AUTISM: I’ve made the mistake of being too clinical, too PC. Females /= Women. THAT’S TOO COLD, THAT’S NOT US. Yes, even when using the term feminism, you don’t use females. That gender vs sex question still plays into things. Both the gender and sex arenas have an iron in the feminism fire. A trans woman is a woman; let them join the fight. A trans man was assigned female, and as a woman, or a male trapped in a woman’s body (AFAB), had to fight the restrictions to become the man they are. Yes, often those fights are ongoing.
2: Yes, you can’t just accept anything. Like the moon, you don’t want to end up in the void of the asteroid belt. However, many feminists have fallen on the sword to make progress for a movement others have benefited from.
3: Small steps; major changes raise walls of resistance. Yes, it’s an ugly fight, and many of the over-shooters hate the idea that people make compromises.
4: (((THERE’s a WHOLE BOOK on the need for hyper extreme efforts. a book specifically about feminism. I CAN NOT REMEMBER ITS NAME. Feel free to mention it.)))
p.s. This article was written in 2021, yet it discusses experiences from before 2000 rather than contemporary notes on the changes. It leads you to the water, where you can ponder the points of the last dozen years or more. Is that from today, 2014-2026, 2021, or earlier? As Tim Wise pointed out: We never lost our racism, or in this case, sexism. (Tim Wise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Wise )
Instead, it’s also a discussion more on patriarchal sex, porn, and male erotic dreams. No, not the traditional Missionary sex position, but the oppressive women’s pain and humiliation and the related money. This vs the woman’s right to do this work or things SW, BDSM, Traditional Wife lifestyles.
It’s a discussion of the conflict between two feminist storm clouds. The freedom of women to use their feminism to make money off of or enjoy these male _____ (Fantasies?) of women and sex. The freedom to control men? The freedom of equality?
What about the responsibilities that come with these freedoms?
I’ll bring this to two topics. BDSM & later, TRAD Wifes.
We have had plenty of women who have entered into consensual BDSM relationships. The key there is “Consensual.” Julie does not explicitly say BDSM. Her use of pain and humiliation can just as easily apply to adult dancing and the traditional 50s housewife lifestyle. BDSM has become much more mainstream between her 1989 date and her 2021article. “TRAD” has also become very prominent in the 6 years before the article’s publication.
Again, consent must be a part of the discussion. How can one freely consent if one was raised (Groomed by society) to be submissive to men? The thing is, the children of feminists have a significant rate of consent. Granted (without quoting statistics), experience has shown me that there are plenty of submissive men.
Now, the controversial part I’d love to see articles and papers on:
A: That experience has also shown me that women tend to get more dominant over time. I would say men less so. There seems to be a split. Probably a fairly equal split between women who have become more dominant and those who haven’t.
B: I believe there is at least some point of rebellion going on. Like with the children of the super conservative – the sheriff’s kid or the preacher’s kid – becoming the bad apple.
and Finally,
C: Frequently, those men who have powerful jobs often have the need to be submissive to balance that out. I have seen a significant portion of executives, police officers, and firefighters, especially those who’ve moved up in ranks, seeking pro-dom’s/domme’s. Is this showing a healthy balance? If they were just bullies, would they be seeking this, or are the biggest bullies the ones seeking it most? I say “pro” is that a psychological need to hide this side of them? Real or imagined? Internal or societal pressure to hide? Is this the same for women?